The Paper learned that Sun Ji, a cultural expert, archaeologist, and lifelong research librarian of the National Museum of China, passed away at 8:09 this morning at the age of 94. Mr. Sun Ji's student, Ge Chengyong, a well-known cultural relic scholar, and Sun Ji's colleague, Zhu Wanzhang, a research librarian at the National Museum of China, both confirmed the news to The Paper. According to Zhu Wanzhang, he learned of Mr. Sun's death from Mr. Sun Ji's daughter this morning, and he was very sad.

"My teacher, Mr. Sun Ji, is a towering academic monument in the field of Chinese archaeology, cultural relics, and fine arts. He is a truly outstanding representative of Chinese literature and erudition. He has pushed traditional classics to a peak. He is a researcher of cultural relics. He is a leading figure. His life has been full of ups and downs, but his academic achievements are like Kunlun on the Chinese plateau." Ge Chengyong, a well-known cultural relic scholar and expert in cultural heritage research, told The Paper in the morning, "I was greatly influenced by him academically. He has been in the hospital for more than ten days. It was a complication caused by an infection some time ago. He showed signs of improvement in the hospital yesterday. He suddenly suffered from respiratory failure after 5 o’clock this morning. Rescue until 8 o’clock was ineffective... The Chinese cultural relics industry lost a top figure, and it was extremely sad. , I can't help myself, may Mr. rest in peace in heaven!"

According to Zhu Wanzhang's introduction to The Paper, Mr. Sun died of respiratory failure after being admitted to the hospital due to a new crown infection. "Even during the epidemic, Mr. Sun will come to the library every week. We will eat and chat together at noon every Tuesday, and talk about the manuscript of the eight-volume "Complete Works of Mr. Sun Ji" that Mr. Sun is editing. But since last November After the month, Teacher Sun has not come back due to illness. I still want to wait until the epidemic is over and Mr. Sun recovers, so that I can meet and chat with Teacher Sun again." Zhu Wanzhang said.

It is reported that Sun Ji wanted to write a book when he was young, and the title of the book was "Wuyuan". At that time, his academic interest was to explore the origin of things. He wanted to find out where all the various things in the world came from and where they would develop. Looking back on decades of academic journey, although he did not write a book called "Wuyuan", Sun Ji's research has always been closely related to "Wuyuan", and he has always maintained his original thoughts.

Sun Ji, (1929-2023)

Sun Ji, born in 1929, is from Qingdao, Shandong. Antiquarian. In 1949, he entered the North China Military and Political University to study, and then worked in the Beijing Federation of Trade Unions. In 1955, he was admitted to the History Department of Peking University, majoring in archaeology. After graduating in 1960, he stayed in the department to work. In 1979, he worked in the Archeology Department of the Chinese History Museum (now the National Museum). Now he is a lifelong research librarian of the National Museum, honorary president of the National Museum Research Institute, vice chairman of the National Cultural Relics Appraisal Committee, and senior librarian of the Central Research Institute of Culture and History. He is the author of "Illustration of Material Culture Data in the Han Dynasty", "Chinese Ancient Public Service Commentary Collection", "Yang Guan Ji", "Chinese Sacred Fire", "Wake Up from History", "Ancient Chinese Material Culture", "Wake Up from History - Sun Ji Talking about Chinese Ancient Cultural Relics, etc.

"Illustration of Material and Cultural Materials in the Han Dynasty (Revised Edition)" by Sun Ji, Zhonghua Book Company 2020 Edition File picture

Sun Ji (left) took a group photo with Joseph Needham, file picture

In 1955, Sun Ji was admitted to the History Department of Peking University, majoring in archeology. Since then, he has begun to study ancient Chinese material culture. According to a previous report by "Guangming Daily", at Peking University, Sun Ji's closest teacher was Mr. Su Bai. Mr. Su Bai told him that archaeological research requires more reading and useful books. When reading, special attention should be paid to historical materials in terms of material culture. There will be many "tentacles" in historical materials, and these "tentacles" will touch all aspects. Some things They will be connected with each other and become the entrance of academic research. Sun Ji was deeply impressed by the archaeological report "Baisha Song Tomb" published by Mr. Su Bai in 1957. This book not only clearly explains the history reflected in the murals, but also has vivid text. Most of the documents quoted in the book are first-hand materials and the best versions. In his opinion, this has something to do with Mr. Su Bai's work in Peking University Library. Sun Ji has always kept in mind the teachings of Mr. Su Bai. During his study and work at Peking University, he often used the rich collection of books in the Peking University library. Although there are few direct discoveries in reading, but if you read a lot and connect various books, you will find problems. Accumulating slowly in this way has laid the foundation for learning. Students who study archeology will take the course of archaeological drawing, and Sun Ji has also received this training, and pays special attention to it. His works are accompanied by his own line drawings.

In 2014, Mr. Sun Ji's "Ancient Chinese Material Culture" was published. The book covers ten aspects of ancient Chinese agriculture and diet, wine, tea, sugar, tobacco, textiles and clothing, and basically fully demonstrates the material civilization of ancient China. . The hundreds of line drawings in the book are all hand-painted by Mr. Sun Ji, with vivid pictures and strong explanatory power. Such a masterpiece has been welcomed by all walks of life after its publication, and has become another milestone work in the field of material data research.

"Ancient Chinese Material Culture"

Another representative work of Mr. Sun Ji, "Illustration of Material and Cultural Materials in the Han Dynasty", was published by Zhonghua Book Company in revised edition. Combined with unearthed cultural relics, this book introduces in detail the achievements of agriculture and handicrafts in the Han Dynasty, covering farming, fishing and hunting, kiln industry, smelting and casting, etc. The book corroborates the unearthed cultural relics and document records of the Han Dynasty, draws a clear outline of life and production in the Han Dynasty, and becomes a handy book for field archaeologists and a must-read for understanding the material and cultural life of the Han Dynasty.

Sun Ji said that from the beginning of trying to write a thesis when he was young to the "Illustration of Material and Cultural Materials of the Han Dynasty (Revised Version)", he has accumulated thousands of line drawings of ancient artifacts over the years. Drawing is not easy. Sometimes, he sits down after dinner and begins to draw. When he is finished, he looks up and sees that it is dawn. Now that the printing conditions are better, many archaeological and cultural relic books directly use photos instead of line drawings. However, Sun Ji believes that line drawing has an irreplaceable role, and can describe the details to be expressed more clearly.

Regarding the current popular terms of "mass archaeology" and "public archaeology", Sun Ji said in an interview with the media before that "mass archaeology" does not allow everyone to go to archaeology, but to let everyone understand the knowledge of archaeology. Underground cultural relics are owned by the whole people, and the excavation must be approved by the government. Otherwise, even if an ancient tomb is found in one's own yard, it cannot be excavated arbitrarily. An archaeologist is ordered by the government to dig, and that is his job. If he doesn't work for the government, it's a robbery. The popularization of archaeological knowledge to the public should focus on the popularization of archaeological achievements, not the techniques or methods of field archaeology.

Mr. Sun Ji once said: The material and cultural achievements of ancient China are an important part of the 5,000-year glorious history of our great oriental country, and they are the basic national conditions. They should have become common sense and known to everyone.

Extended reading; Dialogue with Sun Ji

Question: Before the industrial revolution in the West, China's ancient material culture was actually ahead of the world in many fields, and this leadership was hundreds or even thousands of years ahead. It is very important and we are proud of it. As an expert on cultural relics, how do you think we should understand cultural self-confidence?

Sun Ji: I work in the National Museum of China, and I come into contact with cultural relics all day long. Cultural relics are the solidified form of culture. Culture covers a wide range, and in a certain sense, material culture is the yardstick of social production and life. Before the 17th century, China's entire material culture was ahead of the world. General Secretary Xi said there must be "four self-confidences". Among the four self-confidences is cultural self-confidence, and cultural self-confidence includes self-confidence based on material and cultural achievements.

Chairman Mao said that only by comparing can we distinguish. If we compare the situation in China with the West, we can see it clearly. For example, in the centuries before and after BC, the west was the Roman Empire, and the east was the Han Dynasty. These were the two centers of civilization in the East and the West. Han is a great civilization, and Rome is a great civilization, each with its own light, each illuminating a large area. But Han civilization and Roman civilization are two different things, born and developed from completely different historical conditions.

For example, when we travel to the West now, we see stone structures such as the pyramids in Egypt and the cathedrals in Rome. They are very spectacular, and they are still shocking to this day. There was no such building in China at that time. The total weight of the pyramids in Egypt is about 6 million tons, and they are built with large stones of about two tons each. There is no stone production in the suburbs of Cairo, so it has to be transported from the Sinai Peninsula and the upper reaches of the Nile River. To build a pyramid back then, it took 100,000 people ten years to build the road first, and another thirty years to build it. There is a lot of manpower here. Without the two prerequisites of developed slavery and extreme religious fanaticism, such a large building cannot be built.

China had civil structures at that time, the beams were made of wood, and the walls were all made of rammed earth, and the rammed earth was made from local materials. There is a thick eolian loess layer in the Yellow River Basin. Pressing and compacting the loess saves labor and materials, and its firmness is beyond imagination. We are doing archaeological work now, and sometimes we come across rammed earth thousands of years ago, which is still quite hard. So the "Book of Songs" said that King Wen of Zhou built Lingtai, "the common people attacked it, and it will be completed in a short time." The common people came to do it, and it was finished within a few days. If it is a stone building, it will not work. This also shows that in this aspect, China pays more attention to practicality, saves labor and materials and is practical, and focuses on bringing tangible benefits to people, so it is more pragmatic.

Another example is that both the West and the East have to eat food. To eat food, we must first plant crops, and the first step in planting crops is to cultivate land. Plows are used to cultivate land, there were plows in the Han Dynasty, and there were plows in Rome. A plowshare is called a plowshare, and a single plowshare can only make a furrow on the ground. In China, however, a plow wall was installed behind the plow share—an arc-shaped iron plate, so that the clods plowed by the plow share turned over along the arc of the plow share. What's the benefit of turning it over? The soil underneath is raw soil, which does not come into contact with sunlight and air, and its fertilizer efficiency is low. If it is turned over, it will slowly become mature soil after being exposed to sunlight and air. This way of plowing every year and turning over the soil every year will increase the fertility of the field. The Roman plow did not have a plow wall, so it could not turn over clods of soil. It could only plow horizontally once, then vertically again, breaking up the clods of soil.

Another example is planting. In the sowing paintings painted by Dutch painters during the Renaissance, one person still holds the seeds and scatter them like this, which is called sowing. The crops that grow after sowing are not feasible, and the next step is to weed and cultivate. At that time, China invented the columbine cart, which was a tool specially used for sowing, and the sown seeds grew evenly and in rows. It will be very convenient for cultivating, weeding and harvesting in the future.

There is a layer of shell on the outside of the grain, which can be crushed with a mortar or pestle to break the outer shell of the rice. After breaking apart, the rice grains and rice bran are still mixed together and have to be separated. In Rome, a large dustpan was taken to the hillside and vigorously dusted along the downdraft, and the chaff was blown away by the wind, leaving rice grains at the bottom. At that time, China used fan carts. We used to see them in old-fashioned mills. Grain was poured in, and the crankshaft was used to shake the fan blades to blow air. What was blown out was chaff, and rice remained underneath. This is much easier than taking a big dustpan on the hillside.

So from the perspective of agriculture, there were many things that were very advanced in the Han Dynasty at that time.

Not only this, such as weaving. When weaving, you have to spin the thread first. According to the "Book of Songs", a girl named Nongwa was born, and a boy named Nongzhang. This tile does not refer to the tile, but the spinning wheel. It is round with a A stick, with one twist, twists the strands into threads. This thing is used all over the world, but later the people of the Han Dynasty made spinning wheels, and the output and quality of threads were greatly improved. Rome does not. Spinning alone is not enough, we have to weave cloth. At that time in China, there were diagonal looms, and there were pedals. With one step on the warp thread, for example, one three five or two four six, it could be lifted up to pass through the gap. Through the weft, the cloth is woven. A few years ago, a jacquard loom was unearthed in a Han tomb in Chengdu, which shows that the looms of the Han Dynasty were very advanced. At that time, it was still a vertical loom in the West, and if you want to add flowers, you have to weave it upwards, which is very troublesome.

We can see that the ancient Chinese society was stable for a long time, with a relatively high level of production, and well-developed agriculture and handicrafts. Chinese buildings may not look as grand as others, but they are warm in winter and cool in summer, and very practical.

If we review the history of the Han Dynasty for more than 400 years, we will find that the people of the Han Dynasty not only defeated foreign aggression, developed their own country, created a splendid culture, but also created countless inventions, from astronomy to mathematics. To farmland water conservancy, from burning bricks and tiles to driving and building boats, wisdom shines everywhere. Not to mention the many contributions that have benefited the world, such as silk weaving, papermaking, metallurgy, and porcelain making, all of which have effectively promoted the progress of human civilization. So in many respects, China's material culture is leading. Ancient Chinese material culture is the pride of the Chinese people, and this belief should give Chinese people the confidence to better create our own new life.

"Cultural self-confidence is of course not only material culture, but in terms of material culture, the Han Dynasty also gave people more self-confidence than Rome at that time."

Question: In many fields, ancient China created a splendid and more advanced material culture at that time, which you introduced in detail in your book "Ancient Chinese Material Culture". What do you think are the factors behind this lead?

Sun Ji: Taking metallurgy and ironmaking as an example, the technology of iron and steel smelting in the Han Dynasty was far ahead in the world. In the West, the application of cast iron was as late as the 14th century, and malleable cast iron as late as the 18th century. In the early Spring and Autumn Period, China had cast iron, that is, pig iron. This pig iron was made by melting iron into molten iron and then casting it. Rome did not, and Rome’s iron was always reduced in a solid state. The reducing flame produced by burning charcoal reduced the iron in the ore, and the silicates in the iron ore were removed by beating. However, no matter how much the solid state reduction method beats, it is impossible to remove all the inclusions inside. But if you want to melt it into molten iron, the inclusions will form slag, and if you pour it out, there will be relatively pure iron underneath. Much stronger than the solid-state reduction method of hammering.

Ancient China was ahead of the West in many respects, and behind this lead itself was a social foundation. We say that the stone buildings in Rome were built on the social basis of slavery. The Han Dynasty was not slavery. There were slaves in the Han Dynasty, but that slave was a domestic slave, just like the Xiren in "Dream of Red Mansions". Her identity was a maid , is also a slave, but she does not go to work in the fields, the whole harvest of grain is not grown by them, and they are not the main bearers of agricultural production. The basic producers in the society of the Han Dynasty were the common people, the common people.

Moreover, the highest national population recorded by statistics in the Han Dynasty was 70 million. So at that time, the land was sparsely populated and there was a lot of land, so the government distributed the land to the common people. In the past, there were only some sporadic records, but this matter is not clear. Later, bamboo slips of the Han Dynasty were unearthed, which recorded the laws and decrees of the Han Dynasty. One is called the two-year law. Common people can divide 100 mu of land, which is now 31 mu. As the saying goes, one cow on 30 mu of land, isn't it possible to live a normal life? At that time, the standard of subsistence and clothing was low, so although the productivity was also low, with 31 mu of land, a family of five could eat.

The Han Dynasty did not need to raise a large number of slaves or wage wars to plunder slaves all day long, and the society was relatively stable. The Chinese are industrious and courageous, seeking truth from facts, and many things are done as quickly and economically as possible. From the perspective of the Han Dynasty, it was better than the West in terms of material culture. Cultural self-confidence is of course not only material culture, but in terms of material culture, the Han Dynasty gave people more self-confidence than Rome at that time.

"We know this, and we know that the Chinese are not backward in the world. This belief in history will have a driving effect."

Question: Your book "Illustration of Material and Cultural Materials of the Han Dynasty" can be said to be an encyclopedia of the Han Dynasty. It covers agriculture, fishing and hunting, handicrafts, mining and smelting, military equipment, architecture, diet, etc. Have an intuitive understanding of all aspects. In your opinion, how much influence did ancient Chinese material culture have on Chinese history and culture? What does it mean for us to understand the material culture of ancient China?

Sun Ji: The material and cultural achievements of ancient China are an important part of the glorious history of thousands of years. Ancient cultural relics, especially the material cultural materials contained in them, even though most of them are ordinary daily necessities, although they may not be directly related to important historical events, they are the witnesses of people's lives, the yardstick of technological level, and the social conditions of the era to which they belong. of a mirror. For example, in the pre-Qin period, horses were mostly used for driving, and they were rarely ridden alone. Only in the late Spring and Autumn Period were there records of nobles riding horses. But until the Southern and Northern Dynasties, when the men of the upper class in our country traveled, they still paid attention to riding a car instead of riding a horse. On some more solemn occasions, it may even be considered a disrespectful act if you give up your car and ride a horse. There was such an incident in the Han Dynasty. At the time of Emperor Xuan of the Han Dynasty, a minister named Wei Xuancheng, when he was accompanying the Huidi Temple, because it rained in the morning and the road was difficult to walk, he did not come by horse-drawn carriage, but rode a horse. Ma, the result was impeached, but also cut off the title. Then why did the nobles of the Han Dynasty not pay attention to horseback riding? In fact, one reason is that the harness is not perfect. Harness can also be regarded as material culture, it has an impact on social life.

Material culture includes metallurgy and architecture, which are very basic things in society. For example, in ancient wars, if you study material culture, you will know what weapons and combat methods were used at that time, otherwise many problems cannot be explained clearly. To study architecture, you have to know how ancient cities were built and how city defenses were arranged. What is a city? In ancient times, most of the cities were surrounded by moats, that is, "pools". Since their first appearance, Chinese cities and pools have been city defense facilities that cooperate with each other. Therefore, as the saying goes, "A fire at the gate of the city will bring disaster to the fish in the pond." The fish in the pond refers to the fish in the city, not the fish raised in ordinary ponds. War and city defense are directly related to the survival of the country. So material culture not only reflects history sideways, but sometimes directly reflects history.

Another example is the civil architecture of the Chinese Han Dynasty and the stone architecture of Rome that we mentioned above. Ancient China not only valued the low cost and practicality of buildings, but also the social harmony that must be maintained when building large-scale projects. "Let the people live with the time" was the consensus of the society at that time, that is, the common people's corvee and construction should not delay the farming time. Under the surface of ancient Western stone structures and ancient Chinese civil structures, differences in social systems are reflected.

Most of those that are respected as "cultural relics" today were once daily necessities in ancient times, and had their own place in the social life at that time because of their functions. Several heavy weapons and treasures are just to strengthen and deify this attribute. From the perspective of exploring the inherent social functions of cultural relics, they are like large and small lenses erected at one end of the time tunnel, from which we can glimpse the living ancient history. If the angle is right and the focus is right, you can see the details of some great events, the subtleties of special skills, and the gleams of beauty that do not fade with the passage of time.

I hope to understand ancient social life through cultural relics, and then introduce these basic knowledge involving all aspects of social life to everyone, so that everyone can know that we have many good practices in ancient times. This knowledge is what we should know. We understand this, and we know that the Chinese are not backward in the world. This belief in history will have a driving effect.

"The Chinese nation has formed a huge cultural community in distant times."

Question: In your article "Birds of Prey, God's Face and Shaohao", there is such a sentence, "The ancient Chinese nation has formed a huge cultural community in a distant era." Please explain in detail.

Sun Ji: A country as big as China was divided into Central Plains and Frontiers in ancient times. For example, to the people of the Shang Dynasty, the south of the Yangtze River was a very distant place. The capital of the Shang Dynasty, whether in Chaoge or Anyang, was far away from the south of the Yangtze River. Moreover, in ancient times, there were many rivers and swamps in the south of the Yangtze River. Chinese warfare used to be chariot warfare. To the south of the Yangtze River, chariot warfare was not very effective and difficult to fight, so it was a remote area. Although there used to be such a relatively fixed view, but now after archaeological excavations, it is found that many things unearthed are similar in places far apart.

For example, Hongshan culture is in Liaoning, Liangzhu culture is in Zhejiang, Hongshan culture and Liangzhu culture, Liaoning and Zhejiang, let alone ancient times, are far away now. The means of transportation in ancient times were not as developed as they are now. It would take several months to walk from Liaoning to Zhejiang on foot. However, many things unearthed from it are similar, such as the idols unearthed, and their characteristics are basically the same.

And some early scripts, like oracle bone inscriptions, as well as more primitive scripts, look basically similar. On the one hand, it is a single square character. Although I can't fully recognize it now, I feel that the basic principles of character creation are the same. In the past, we only knew the oracle bone inscriptions of the Shang Dynasty in Anyang, and later in Shaanxi, the oracle bone inscriptions of the Western Zhou Dynasty were published. There are also the oracle bone inscriptions of the pre-Zhou period, that is, the oracle bone inscriptions of the week before the Western Zhou Dynasty destroyed the Shang Dynasty. This oracle bone inscription is basically the same as the Anyang oracle bone inscription, and some characters are written in the same way. However, the oracle bone inscriptions produced in Shaanxi have extremely small characters and are not as open as the Anyang oracle bone inscriptions.

From Xi'an to Anyang, from Liaoning to Zhejiang, within such a large range, many things are common. So the Chinese nation originally had some common factors, and these common factors later passed through the Shang and Western Zhou, and after political unification, it became more and more a unified multi-ethnic country. It’s not about conquering a completely different, another nation, whose language has nothing in common with you, it’s not like that. It would have been consistent with many things.

If we broaden our field of vision a bit, we can also find that this commonality exists among the various archaeological cultures in ancient China, which are extremely far apart in time and space. In ancient times, although the Huaxia people were distributed all over the country and had many tribes, they had basically the same language and characters. The Chinese nation has formed a huge cultural community in distant times. The differences in the shape of some daily necessities unearthed in various places, such as pottery, are secondary to this commonality that covers the world and transcends regions. Because only in this way can those quite unique patterns and utensils travel through the vast time and space and appear in basically the same appearance in different archaeological cultures.

The cultures of the ancient Chinese nation have multiple sources, but they are not closed to each other and developed independently, but multiple sources converge to form a unified ancient Chinese culture.

"Our country is not only good at learning all kinds of beautiful things in the world, but also can digest and absorb them according to its own situation."

Question: In addition to the exchanges between various ethnic groups in ancient China, there are also exchanges between Chinese and Western cultures. When discussing cultural relics, you mentioned the issue of cultural exchanges many times. Chinese inventions such as the 璏-style saber method have crossed countless borders to the center of Western civilization, and Western inventions such as planting grapes and brewing wine have also been used in many countries. It was introduced to China in the early days and was learned, digested and absorbed. When looking at ancient Chinese-Western exchanges, what do you think we need to pay attention to?

Sun Ji: In addition to the major inventions known to the world, some small objects created in my country have long been popular in foreign lands in ancient times; If you find it outside of the sea, you have to admire and cherish it.

But we also have to see one thing, that is, some things are not as we imagined. If this is a good thing, others must like it very much and want it. For example, some good things from China have never been available in the West. We in China eat braised pork. This braised pork is very fragrant, and it is also delicious for foreigners. How can braised pork be delicious? Why is it better than simple western barbecue? Because there are condiments such as soy sauce in it, of course there are a lot of condiments in China, the most important of which are soy sauce and soy sauce. Where did miso and soy sauce come from? It is made from fermented soybeans. The so-called Chinese cooking, a very important material basis is soybeans, of course, like salt and sugar are available all over the world, but this sauce is unique to China. Chairman Mao said, "I like to see a thousand waves of rice shrubs." Rice is rice, and shrubs are soybeans. But soybeans did not reach the West until the 18th century. There are countless foreigners who have been to China before and have eaten braised pork. If you put soybeans in a small bag and take them home, wouldn't that be the end of it? But not. So cultural exchange itself is restricted by many conditions.

Another example is Chinese fired porcelain. Chinese porcelain is beautiful on the one hand and looks like jade, on the other hand it does not absorb water. Pottery is different. Pottery absorbs water. After a long time, small water droplets will seep out of the outside. Of course, good pottery seeps less. After entering the Neolithic Age, people would burn pottery, both in China and in the West. Moreover, glassware existed in the west for a long time, such as in ancient Egypt, and it was even worse in ancient Rome, where glassware in ancient Rome was very good. There are pottery and glassware, and they are so well made, but there is no porcelain. This porcelain was not fired until very late in the West. The difference between porcelain and pottery is its body. The body of porcelain is made of china clay, and the body of pottery is made of clay, but there are also china clay in the West. Therefore, the research should be based on facts, not just relying on logical reasoning.

Question: We often say that the Han and Tang Dynasties were prosperous. The Han Dynasty and the Tang Dynasty are two shining eras in Chinese history, and the Tang Dynasty we know has a basic impression of openness. Of course, the Silk Road of the Han Dynasty was the same. What do you think of the prosperity of the Han and Tang Dynasties and its opening up?

Sun Ji: There were two most glorious eras in ancient China, one was the Han Dynasty and the other was the Tang Dynasty. Many books now say that the reason why the Tang Dynasty prospered was because it was opened up at that time and a lot of foreign things came. But in fact, the basic principles of the Tang Dynasty, such as the Fubing system and the system of three provinces and six ministries, have nothing to do with the West. For example, in terms of the culture of the Tang Dynasty, Tang poetry and ancient prose were not influenced by outsiders at all, and they were all purely Chinese.

At that time, the Silk Road had more traffic in the Tang Dynasty than in the Han Dynasty. At this time, Central Asia was the Sogdians, and further west, it was West Asia. What is now Iran was called the Sasanian Empire at that time. The culture of these places was also passed down to the Tang Dynasty, but most of the things they brought were high-end luxury goods. For example, goldware, how to add decorations on the goldware, in this regard, the Tang Dynasty learned some Western techniques. But these things are some luxuries of the upper class, and have little to do with the production and life at the lowest level. Moreover, although some gold and silver wares of the Tang Dynasty adopted foreign styles in shape, it is rare to see imitations that followed suit.

If you look at the shape and decoration of the vessel separately from different angles, the shape of the vessel is more representative of its practical function, while the decoration is more focused on conveying its cultural attributes. The patterns on gold and silver wares of the Tang Dynasty certainly had Western elements, but most of them have been modified according to Chinese aesthetic concepts, and the techniques have become increasingly sophisticated, so that the Western elements have gradually faded and become difficult to detect. Of course, this is not to say that the craftsmanship of making gold and silverware in the Tang Dynasty was never learned from the West, but its overall style and development trend were never led by the West.

At that time, some crops and plants were also brought in from Sogdia, but the quantity was not much. For example, the dishes that increased in China from Han to Tang were cucumbers, spinach, and eggplants. The Chinese cabbage we eat in winter was cultivated by the Chinese themselves, or even created by the Chinese. Because this Chinese cabbage was originally called Siong, its leaves are not gathered together, but spread out, and the leaves are black and green, which is completely different from the current cabbage with a heart. This heart-wrapped Chinese cabbage sometimes weighs 30 catties, and the inedible part of the cabbage at the bottom is not even half a catty. The 30 catties on the top are delicious. This is cultivated in China after many years of.

A few days ago, I read an article about the Silk Road in a newspaper, saying that many crops came at that time, such as potatoes, sweet potatoes, tomatoes, peppers... No, these things include corn, which are all American crops. , are all crops that came from the Americas after the great geographical discovery in the 16th century. They are different from the Silk Road and the ancient exchanges between China and the West. They are not the same thing.

So in ancient times, whether it was the Han Dynasty or the Tang Dynasty, although some foreign things were accepted, they did not have a great impact on China's most basic production and life, the national economy and the people's livelihood. In addition, we must see the selectivity of foreign cultures in ancient my country. Those things that do not conform to our national conditions are generally difficult to introduce and gain a foothold. Moreover, most of the foreign things that were introduced into our country were eventually Chineseized. Take wine as an example, from planting grapes, brewing wine to distilling brandy, although they were all introduced to my country from the West at first, they were all accepted by my country in a very early period and gradually formed their own characteristics. This shows that our country is not only good at learning all kinds of beautiful things in the world, but also can digest and absorb them according to its own conditions.

Culture needs communication, "Zhuanyi multi-teacher is your teacher", there is nothing wrong with choosing the good and following. But culture is restricted by tradition and national character. The external cultural factors only played the role of icing on the cake, but failed to change the deep structure of Chinese society.

"The study of ancient cultural relics must be based on historical facts, and must not be at the expense of common sense."

Question: When studying ancient cultural relics, everyone probably hopes to have a unique perspective and novel thinking, but all of these should be based on historical facts, which you have emphasized many times. You also talked about some of your views in the book, can you talk about it in detail?

Sun Ji: In the study of ancient cultural relics, it is of course a valuable academic achievement if we can reveal its profoundness and explain its connotation at an undeveloped level, and then come up with a refreshing theoretical summary. But to achieve this step, it must be based on historical facts, and must not be at the expense of common sense.

The study of material culture is slowly becoming more and more popular. But there are also some problems here. One problem is that our own researchers in China have some misunderstandings about ancient times. Those misunderstandings are actually very simple things, but they have never been corrected.

For example, the "tofu issue", saying that the king of Huainan invented tofu is actually a kind of speculation, but it has been raised again in recent years. How did it come up? When the Tomb No. 1 in Dahuting, Henan Province was excavated, there was a stone carving portrait, which was considered to be tofu making. But in fact it is not, what it describes is the situation of brewing and preparing wine, and has nothing to do with tofu. Then why is it interpreted as making tofu? I'm afraid preconceptions are at work. A kind of non-staple food that has never been reflected in the voluminous literature and classics for more than 600 years from the Northern Wei Dynasty to the Five Dynasties, the time of its appearance was suddenly brought forward to the end of the Eastern Han Dynasty. Shouldn't it be seriously examined? If the ears eat the eyes, and drift with the tide, I am afraid that this ship that deviates from the channel will row farther and farther.

For another example, it is generally said that China has passed the age of totems, and in the age of totems, every clan has an animal ancestor. This totem is mainly from American Indians and Oceania. They believe that a clan has an animal ancestor. For example, the ancestor of this clan is a crocodile, and the ancestor is a bear or something. This term has been introduced by Chinese scholars since the 1930s. It was a new term at that time, and it was gradually added to ancient China. In ancient China, at that time it was said that all nations would come to court. The state of all nations could of course be a clan, not a big country, but even if a clan had to have a totem, all nations would have 10,000 totems. Find 10,000 animals to be his ancestors? I'm afraid even the ants can't make up the number of ten thousand.

Moreover, in ancient China, such as the primitive society and the Neolithic Age, we all know that there was Yangshao Culture, Longshan Culture and so on. What is the totem of Yangshao culture? What is the totem of Longshan culture? No one can answer, because totems have totem signs, totem coats of arms, totem dances, totem taboos, and a whole host of things. The pottery we found in Yangshao Culture and Longshan Culture did not have any animals everywhere, that is to say, no totem marks were found.

Another example is the porcelain vases of the Song Dynasty, which have a taller body and a smaller opening on the top. Everyone calls it a plum vase, and there are Mei vase museums in some places. Why is it called Meiping? In the early years of the Republic of China, someone wrote a book called "Yinliu Zhai Talking about Porcelain". He thought that this thing had a small mouth and was only suitable for a plum blossom, so it was called a plum vase. In fact, in the Song Dynasty, flowers were arranged in vases or bile vases, and this kind of vases were not used. This kind of thing that we call the so-called plum bottle now was called Jingping bottle or Jingping bottle at that time, and it was used to hold wine. In the Kaifang Banquet seen in the murals, drinking bowls are placed on the table, and such bottles are placed under the table, indicating that this is a utensil for storing wine. That is to say, we in China sometimes have some misunderstandings in the process of research, and these misunderstandings are sometimes passed down and cannot be changed.

Another example is a popular saying now that the shape of the winged beast was passed down from the West, and many people still hold this view until now. In fact, China had cast winged animals on copper pots in the early Spring and Autumn Period. There is a big difference between Chinese winged animals and western winged animals. Winged animals appearing in Chinese models have small wings, which is an artistic technique in itself, which means that they are more spiritual and majestic.

There are two sets of artistic expression in the East and the West. Although there is cultural exchange, and this cultural exchange is definitely a good thing, but in ancient times, it was limited by the inconvenience of transportation, and each nation had different habits. After a long time, this different habit will be fixed. It has become a system, and after becoming a system, it rejects other things. If you come up with a new trick, I may not be willing to accept it. So there are many, many conditions for cultural exchange. It doesn’t mean that if there is something there, you have to learn it. Sometimes you can’t learn it if you want to learn it, and some people don’t want to learn it after you come here. There are various reasons. Therefore, when we study cultural exchanges between China and foreign countries, we must consider and pay attention to these aspects. Now some of the sayings are still not correct, such as some deviations in naming, I am afraid that the cultural relics circle will have to correct them in the future.

"Adding characters to explain the scriptures was taboo by the ancients; modern scientific methods are more rigorous, and more attention should be paid to the authenticity and seriousness of historical materials."

Q: In your opinion, what should be paid attention to in scholarship and research? What is the academic attitude?

Sun Ji: Adding words to explain the scriptures is taboo for the ancients; modern scientific methods are more rigorous, and more attention should be paid to the authenticity and seriousness of historical materials. The double evidence method advocated by Mr. Wang Guowei should now be said to be triple. The second layer of evidence is unearthed documents and handed down documents, that is, "Historical Records" contains "Yin Benji", which records the events of the Shang Dynasty. The second evidence is that I compared and studied the events of the Shang Dynasty recorded in the "Yin Benji" of "Historical Records" and the unearthed oracle bone inscriptions. In addition to these two layers of evidence, there are also real objects. There are many pottery and bone wares from the Shang Dynasty that have been produced. If we use them to study, wouldn’t there be more materials and more details.

There are constant unearthed and new things coming out. If you can clarify what was not clear before, and what was incorrect before is correct, then you have to update your knowledge content. The Encyclopedia has as many editions as there are editions. The 14th and 15th editions of the "Encyclopedia Britannica" constantly come out with new things.

Take the study of cultural relics as an example, such as naming. Things that have been accounted for in museums are sometimes named incorrectly. If the name is not correct, its purpose cannot be explained clearly. You must first know what it is called, and then talk about its purpose. Talking about circular and square ware doesn’t solve the problem, you have to know what it was called at that time, and only by knowing what it was called at that time can it be connected with the literature at that time, and only then can it be clear. What it is called, it gets its name from the owner, that is, what it was called at that time, it cannot be renamed now, and it is often not the case if it is named again.

"You have to read extensively to spread out your knowledge. Only when you really gain insights and insights from reading can articles be published."

Question: The study of cultural relics needs to "look at the pictures and talk". But this look at the picture and talk, and you can't play freely. To understand images, one needs to have a deep understanding of the era, customs, regulations, and crafts of the images, have a reserve of knowledge about astronomy, geography, physics and mathematics involved, and have accumulated practical experience. It's not easy to have this "common sense", but you have it and incorporated it into your area of expertise. This of course has to do with a lot of your reading. Do you have any suggestions for the reading of party members and cadres today?

Sun Ji: For example, when you write an article, what you say requires evidence. For this evidence, on the one hand, you must have physical evidence, and on the other hand, there must be documentary evidence. Documentary evidence is citations. Now some articles cite several pages of books, citing long paragraphs. In fact, when you quote a book, you want to let the ancients and sages say the sentence you want to say. You put this sentence in your article, and it is logically deduced that it appears exactly at the joint where it should appear. On this point, there should be such a sentence as proof. But there is no way to say where this sentence must exist, it has to be accumulated slowly. It is not easy to find the one that is exactly used here and exactly the right one. And there is such a sentence in this book that you need it, and you may not need it at all, so this has to be accumulated slowly, and there is no shortcut.

My suggestion is to read the thirteen classics, twenty-four histories, and hundreds of schools of thought from the beginning. You still have to start from the most basic, read extensively, and read endlessly. If you basically read all relevant books, you will have a lot of knowledge. Now some comrades feel as if they can press the computer to press the material you want. I said that I really don’t have this ability. If you want to write an article, you don’t work hard but press the computer twice and it comes out. It’s not a big deal. possible. You have to read extensively, spread out your knowledge, and read with real insights and insights, so that this article can come out.

Question: In the face of the splendor and splendor of ancient Chinese material culture, what suggestions do you have for carrying forward these achievements of civilization today?

Sun Ji: I hope to incorporate the historical facts of my country's ancient material and cultural achievements into middle school textbooks. There are about one hundred important achievements in this area in ancient my country, and it is too simple to only talk about the four great inventions, and it is not enough to fully arouse strong patriotic enthusiasm. It would be even better if we can combine social life and compare China and the West.

"A good big tree may have a leaf on it that is yellow and rotten, just pick it off."

Question: Since the 18th National Congress of the Communist Party of China, new and remarkable results have been achieved in the construction of a clean and honest government and the fight against corruption. What do you think of comprehensive and strict governance of the party?

Sun Ji: Since the 18th National Congress of the Communist Party of China, the Party Central Committee has strictly governed the party in an all-round way, corrected the wind and combated corruption, improved the party style and the people's style, and achieved good results. It has won the hearts of the people and the people applaud it.

For example, on a good tree, there may be a leaf on it that is yellow and rotten. Everything is fine, or there may be a problem somewhere, just remove it, which is more conducive to growth and development. So it is really great to strictly govern the party in an all-round way.

Question: Please write a message to the majority of party members and cadres.

Sun Ji: Cultural achievements in history give people confidence, and reform and opening up in reality give people motivation.

(The dialogue part is based on Shi Xixi from the Supervision Department of the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection)